up to page 199 "and he felt the tears running down his cheeks"

so this brings us to the end of book 1. the big picture is that the Atreides, Harkonnen and distant Imperial houses have been introduced, the Baron Harkonnen has abdicated the Arrakis feif to House Atreides but with vendetta on the brain. the more focused picture of what has happened since the last entry is that Herbert introduces Leit-Kynes, the planetologist/Fremen, lets Leto and Paul interact with him to draw us deeper into the fulfillment of prophesy through the dramatic betrayal of Dr. Yueh.

the Bene Gesserit intended to produce the Kwisatz Haderach, "the shortening of the way," and instead it's beginning to look like they produced Mahdi, "the one who points the way." Anna referred to the elegant way that Herbert gives us details that deepen and enrich the story, as if he really is looking back on a fully constructed legend or saga. this is why i got three things out of the 'thopter flight to the mining site with Kynes: 1) Duke Leto really is a man of honor whose death (which he himself seems to be forseeing) would be a terrible tragedy, 2) the "coincidences" associated with Paul's arrival are really portentous omens ... Paul is the real deal, and 3) something complex and secret is going on with the ecology of Dune, and Kynes knows all about it, and it involves the relationship of the worms and the geriatric spice. i think that, without the painful rebirth precipitated by Yueh's betrayal and the near-extermination of House Atreides, Paul would never fulfill his destiny as the prophesied Mahdi.

as i'm writing this i'm thinking, "rebirth" is the wrong word. its really more like Paul has been cast out of eden and has eaten from the tree of knowledge. first there's the episode where he sees his father's weakness and despair and his father even tells others not to mistake his son for a child. then the trauma of finding himself kidnapped and helping to orchestrate the escape gives him a blazing insight where he surpasses his mother's training and becomes a virtual stranger in her eyes. he also looks within himself and sees the truth of his heritage that Jessica has been blind to, that they are both Harkonnen. he sees himself as the intended male Bene Gesserit, but also something more, something intimately related to the Fremen with whom he must seek sanctuary.

as far as deeper meanings that can be divined by these passages, it might be the sleepiness, but i get the distinct impression that right now the author's efforts have turned to moving the plot toward a point where some really interesting stuff can happen. not that he lets up with the religious references and world-building in terms of the technology and society and roster of characters that manifest his virtuosic creative ability ... but he's really using these as tools to get us ready for the real action: Paul's interactions with the Fremen, his true people.

thinking about the way Jessica's relationship with the Duke was portrayed, i think that really highlights Herbert's decision to establish his universe as patriarchal. when authors are writing about earth's past, present and near future, i think they're somewhat obligated to work around our own patriarchal experience or else be labeled "alternate history" and the like ... but dealing with a universe as totally fantastic as Herbert's imperium, patriarchy was his deliberate choice. it's not like an empress is running things and it seems like the duke's closest advisors are men and the duke clearly dreamed of having a son, and thinks of Jessica as the woman he loves, but still, "my woman" (p. 99). the only powerful women are regarded as witches, and they exert their power by underhanded scheming and seemingly supernatural abilities.

i also wanted to mention that i think rubi's association of spice with oil is so totally insightful, one of those things that makes complete sense once i hear it but i really never would have thought of it myself. yes, it's addictive and empowering, once you use it you're trapped into living with it indefinitely, you have to wrest it from the earth and there's an extremely limited supply since the whole universe wants it and it can only be found in a particular place. i'm hoping more associations pop up since i'm reading the book now with that thought in mind.

Dune Schedule

Schedule of readings for each week and assigned poster. I tried to divide the chunks according to action. Chunks get smaller toward the end for more reflection :


By August 28th: Upto p. 158, Vanessa. Last sentence: "Now we'll see some proper action," she whispered.

By Sept 4th: Upto p. 199, Alex. Last sentence: And he felt the tears coursing down his cheeks.

By Sept 11th: Upto p. 261, Anna. Last sentence: Now we are seventy-three.

By Sept 18th: Upto p. 321, Rubi. Last sentence: She is my enemy.

By Sept 25th: Upto p. 362, Vanessa. Last sentence: "Always," she said, and kissed his cheek.

By Oct. 2nd: Upto p. 408, Alex: Last sentence: And the storm was gathering.

By Oct. 9th: Upto p. 447, Anna: Last sentence: "All paths lead into darkness"

By Oct 16th: Upto END p. 489, Rubi.

Jessica and the Duke: Pages 44- 97

One thing I am enjoying about this book is how naturally important details seem to come up. The narrative truly unfolds within the story, not before it or outside of it. No moments of “Oh my GOD it’s Angela’s identical twin sister! We haven’t seen you since you left for Egypt on an archeological expedition to find King Tut’s remains 10 years ago!” No no… Herbert can do much better than that. At first I thought: the questions that spring up in my mind on page X are addressed by ~ page X+30. But I realized that the answers are coming in pieces, and Herbert doesn’t let any crucial question hang for too long in the air before coming back to it and delivering a detail that gives us insight. The details comes naturally, organically, as if it is- no, it IS a part of the story!

One such detail that Herbert has been gradually explaining is the relationship between Jessica and Duke Leto. At first, I assumed that because Jessica was Paul’s mother and lived with Duke Leto, she was the Duke’s wife. Then she was referred to as the Duke’s concubine, which I was totally perplexed by. Later Duke Leto told Jessica to be thankful that he never married her. After that, Dr. Yueh asked Jessica why she hadn’t made the Duke marry her, and, from her response, we understand the reason: while he remains unmarried, other houses still have hope for alliance.

Since she has born the Duke a son, and the Duke has kept her by his side, she’s more than a sex toy. My understanding of a “concubine” is a long term sex toy, but Jessica seems to be even more than that. I think both Dr. Yueh and Jessica have thought about the fact that she can make the Duke to anything. Now knowing that the Duke devoted to Jessica, and has refrained to marrying her simply for political reasons, I am wondering about what “concubine” means to these people…

Also, with this prediction of the Duke’s death floating around, what happens to Jessica when/if he dies? Does a wife receive more “legal” privileges than a concubine/mother of the heir? And: while the Duke remains alive and single, the other houses have hope. If he dies, how does that affect the standing of his house?

Another side the relationship between Jessica and the Duke pivots on the Duke’s father. What’s the deal here? Why does Jessica hate the Duke’s father? How did he die? Is there something important about the timing of his death, the fact that he died after the Duke was born?

Paul and Water: Pages 44- 97.

Okay, I've decided to post on comments upto page 97, so as to keep the blog breathing. Breathe with me, people!

So far the book is really interesting. In fact, it's chock full of action; I sometimes read parts of it over again to see if I missed something (also because I can be pretty dense). I wanted to write about two points: my thoughts on Paul, and my thoughts on water.

PAUL

I like Paul a lot, although it's hard for me to imagine that he's so self-posessed at age 15. It's interesting to see how he contemplates every single decision he makes, and is aware of the import of anything he does or says. Maybe it's the Bene Gesserit training that does that to him. It was also interesting to see how he does not even completely trust his mother- in fact, he deliberated about whether to tell her everything that the old woman (Mapes) had foretold.
You would expect a 15 year old who was nearly assasinated and was then warned of further danger to tell his mother. Lady Jessica seems to be the closest person to him, but he does not completely trust even her. That really I think requires a lot of discipline and control.

I also like how he is so incredibly observent- again, this the Bene Gesserit training. It really makes you think about how sitting back and observing people can reveal so much about their intentions. Every movement of their body, choice of topic in the conversation, intonation, and hesitation is a clue to their hidden meaning. Which is what a lot of the book revolves around- code words, hidden meanings. I guess that is what makes it so interesting. It reminds me of the actual pseudo-science of studying people's facial reactions; I read about it in a random magazine and it was interesting to read theories on whether you can tell a person is lying or recalling a memory simply by where they position their eyes.


WATER

I really think it is ironic that a necessity like water is fatally rare, while a luxury like spice is overbundant. Why do you think this is? Does this exist anywhere in our world? It is really cool to see the many ways that water has been conserved by the Fremen, who look like they have really learned the ways to exist in a harsh existence. Maybe it can be thought of as a statement of people in general- that we are incredibly resilient.

Questions:
1. Does spice remind anyone of oil? The way it is drilled, the harsh conditions surrounding its manufacture, the prosperous and politically fraught economy that has sprung up because of it?
2. I think Duke Leto is pretty fascinating as well; he really seems like a leader who demands the passionof his followers.

On 0-41 of Dune; 4

On page 8, the Reverend Mother says, "... the gom jabbar. It kills only animals." - RR
I think, Rubi, that the Reverend Mother was trying to be exact but not literal. The gom jabber as I understood it is merely a very quick and deadly poison which the Reverand Mother holds up to Paul's throat; she is the actual judge (killer) who both defines and identifies humanity . (Which is why she is called specially to Caladan to administer the test.)

in the Herbert universe, i don't think the gom jabbar is about overcoming pain or emotion. like the reverend mother says, pain is just the axis of the test, it's about crisis and the discipline to see the bigger picture. the animal will bear terrible pain to save it's own life ... the human will bear terrible pain to play a role in a larger strategy. - AA
What is the difference, in your mind, between "overcoming emotion" and "discipline"? To me they are almost interchangeable.

i think that makes the baron strikingly human, as i'm pretty sure he'd endure whatever it took to take house Atreides down. - AA
Well put. This makes the book more interesting, as before I was under the impression that human was equated with good, and therefore there would be nothing more to learn from the book. With this view, the book may be exploring humanity and trying to understand the factes of both emotion and reason.

On 0-41 of Dune; 3

Any thoughts on spice?

I thought it was interesting he used spice as a valuable commodity. In the Old World, if you look back in history, travelers tried to find new routes all over the world to enable them to get to the East (which was the hub of spice). Of course, the spice referred to in this novel could be different from any old spice. But my point is, even if it were the spice we are familiar with, I could easily believe that it is a valuable commodity- simply because it happened in our history.

in the Herbert universe, i don't think the gom jabbar is about overcoming pain or emotion.

I'm confused on this one. On page 8, the Reverend Mother says, "... the gom jabbar. It kills only animals." She also says that the test she administered (i.e., keep your hand in a painful box, otherwise you'll be stabbed with the gom jabbar) is to "determine if you're human" (page 9). But if he were really human, why would he be scared of dying from the gom jabbar? It only kills animals. Why didn't he just take his hand out of the box, be stabbed with the gom jabbar, but be okay since he is a human? That makes me question what the test is really used for.

I have my own question:
- Why is Arrakis going to Atreides? Where (and why) are the Harkonnen going?
- Why is the Duke considered "popular?"
- I am also wondering about the role of the Benne Gesserit, but I think we can wait to see what their role is.

On 0-41 of Dune; 2

Herbert has created this space-going society that we can't really place definitively in one of the distant future or the distant past. it could be either and it's a little bit of both, right. it's feudal, it's patriarchal, it's mystical, it's about family and rites of passage and vendetta and prophecy ... and the book has barely started.
It's interesting to me that you try to place this book in our world and our own reality. I find that more often than not I am so completely engaged in a story, sci fi in particular, that I forget about the world that I live in unless the book explicitely makes references to obvious real history or facts. For example, countries, like in Ender's Game, or people, like in The Alienist. If I had to pick a time for this book I would categorize it into what I think of as, for lack of a better term, future's future: thousands of years ahead of today, in the aftermath of society's prime. In my head, this category is largely dominated by book where the reality is at odds with our reality in that there is a society that is either unlike anything we've recorded -- "futurific" -- or similar to distant history -- "primitive" -- and this society is juxtaposed with a technology level that is the opposite, e.g. society is futurific and technology is primitive, or visa versa. Does that make sense? I realize this was not your argument but I was struck by the idea of trying to place it in our reality at all.

shoot ... sometimes i want to say the Litany Against Fear it's such a great mantra.
Word. It is the one thing that stayed with me to this day from reading the book long ago. In fact, I actually forgot where I heard it. (Also forgot it verbatim but the idea of it haunts me from time to time so I'm glad I finally found it again.)

as for whatever it is the bene gesserit are doing ... i think all we can say at this point is
Ah, you write with knowledge of more of the book than I have. (i.e., What the fuck is "germ plasm"?)(Don't answer that.)

any thoughts on the spice?
Quick thought: I maintain that the Baron's Mentat is not "human" (as defined by the BG). Mentat are by definition logical and goverened by reason. How then, is he addicted to a spice? He must be fallible...

Alex's belated thoughts on 0-41 of Dune

i'm so glad i'm reading this again, because i know the first time through i became so enraptured by the story and characters i never thought about the context, which looking at it now is really what makes this story (saga) so rich. i mean, Herbert has created this space-going society that we can't really place definitively in one of the distant future or the distant past. it could be either and it's a little bit of both, right. it's feudal, it's patriarchal, it's mystical, it's about family and rites of passage and vendetta and prophecy ... and the book has barely started. i'm there with vanessa, getting flashbacks because the characters Herbert writes are so powerful and individual as soon as i hear their incredibly "ethnic" distinctive names i remember all sorts of trivia about them. who've we met so far:

house Atreides - paul, jessica and leto ... servants being hawat, halleck, yueh
house Harkonnen - vladimir and feyd ... servant being piter the mentat
the bene gesserit, represented by reverend helen mohiam, jessica being her ex-acolyte
then there's the spacing guild, the emperor, with irulan the princess/historian

i think the gom jabbar and the bene gesserit belief system (genetic scheme) and the Fremen religion are all about Herbert creating a contextual world that we at once identify with so that we can get drawn into the story, and to inspire that visceral reaction to the philosophy that he teaches through the characters. shoot ... sometimes i want to say the Litany Against Fear it's such a great mantra.

in the Herbert universe, i don't think the gom jabbar is about overcoming pain or emotion. like the reverend mother says, pain is just the axis of the test, it's about crisis and the discipline to see the bigger picture. the animal will bear terrible pain to save it's own life ... the human will bear terrible pain to play a role in a larger strategy. i think that makes the baron strikingly human, as i'm pretty sure he'd endure whatever it took to take house Atreides down. his obesity is so extreme, it's not a natural thing, and i think its an external reflection of his warped psyche. he's evil and cruel, and so is the beautiful Feyd-Rautha, and so is the venomous piter. mentats are all addicted to spice, like the Navigators of the spacing guild and like all Fremen ... all three species are humans, because they're all strategists.

as for whatever it is the bene gesserit are doing ... i think all we can say at this point is that we know it's motivated by whatever is the next step in the kwizatz haderach plan. it's not just that the group of people who happened to hatch the plan to see into both masculine and feminine pasts (knowledge is power, eh) happened to be women - women are uniquely positioned to carry out the plan because it's a lot harder to trick a woman out of her germ plasm than a man ... that's just a timing issue. i mean, nowadays we're like, oh, maybe they could just freeze the eggs and grow the babies in tanks, but Herbert is writing in 1965, and so the "futuristic" technology he writes about is necessarily circumscribed by his own experience. he can't write about the internet, as we know it, for example, any more than he can write about human cloning. at least, such would require a quite a bit of prophetic creativity, and he already has his work cut out for him.

any thoughts on the spice? i've always wondered if it was just adding plot excitement, or if there is a deeper meaning to the spice (and water of life). i can't pinpoint anything specific that it might symbolize.

Dune, p41; Chess, 1

It is hard for me to put the book down. I remember so little of the book but here and there I get glimpses of suspenseful memories and so I want to plow through. I haven't.
I love this chess game that's being played. How many moves ahead does each party already see? I am also intrigued by the juxtaposition of the two heirs, both smart and wise beyond their years, yet still so obviously children with their know-it-all attitudes.
What do you think of the gom-jabber? Is overcoming pain -- emotion? -- really all that seperates humanity from the animal kingdom? So far that makes only Jessica and Paul human for sure, and a few characters decidedly animal: The Baron is obese, his Mentat is addicted to spice, Dr. Yueh will commit crimes for love. I wonder where Feyd-Rautha will fall, and how.
Why do the Bene-Gesserit customarily only test females?